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	<title>Comments on: The Use of the Acrostic in Lamentations</title>
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	<link>http://www.thefloppyhat.com/2009/07/06/the-use-of-the-acrostic-in-lamentations/</link>
	<description>The journey of two people towards PhDs and beyond</description>
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		<title>By: Erel Segal</title>
		<link>http://www.thefloppyhat.com/2009/07/06/the-use-of-the-acrostic-in-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-4232</link>
		<dc:creator>Erel Segal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;For a book filled with such raw emotion, it seems strange to impose such a rigid structure on the text&quot; - Maybe that&#039;s exactly the reason the author chose to impose a structure on the text - to limit the strong emotions and keep them in frame. When someone feels deep grief, he must cling to some form of order, so as not to collapse.

Note that in chapter 1 the alphabetic order is perfect, but in chapters 2-4 there is a swap - the letter &quot;פ&quot; appears before the letter &quot;ע&quot;, and in chapter 5 there is no acrostics at all - only the number of letters is kept. This may be symbolic of the emotions that grow and grow until they break the frame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For a book filled with such raw emotion, it seems strange to impose such a rigid structure on the text&#8221; &#8211; Maybe that&#8217;s exactly the reason the author chose to impose a structure on the text &#8211; to limit the strong emotions and keep them in frame. When someone feels deep grief, he must cling to some form of order, so as not to collapse.</p>
<p>Note that in chapter 1 the alphabetic order is perfect, but in chapters 2-4 there is a swap &#8211; the letter &#8220;פ&#8221; appears before the letter &#8220;ע&#8221;, and in chapter 5 there is no acrostics at all &#8211; only the number of letters is kept. This may be symbolic of the emotions that grow and grow until they break the frame.</p>
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		<title>By: Mandy</title>
		<link>http://www.thefloppyhat.com/2009/07/06/the-use-of-the-acrostic-in-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-3520</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefloppyhat.com/?p=255#comment-3520</guid>
		<description>Edward,

Thanks for the comment. I did run across this translation in my research, though I wasn&#039;t aware of the history behind it. Thanks for the insight. 

It is, unfortunately, nigh on impossible to bring across something like a Hebrew acrostic into English. Still, this translation would certainly be helpful for illustration purposes, if one was teaching on a passage with an acrostic to those who don&#039;t know Hebrew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment. I did run across this translation in my research, though I wasn&#8217;t aware of the history behind it. Thanks for the insight. </p>
<p>It is, unfortunately, nigh on impossible to bring across something like a Hebrew acrostic into English. Still, this translation would certainly be helpful for illustration purposes, if one was teaching on a passage with an acrostic to those who don&#8217;t know Hebrew.</p>
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		<title>By: Mandy</title>
		<link>http://www.thefloppyhat.com/2009/07/06/the-use-of-the-acrostic-in-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-3519</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefloppyhat.com/?p=255#comment-3519</guid>
		<description>Adam,

My personal opinion is that that the poems were originally written down in the acrostic structure; it seems like it would be somewhat counter-intuitive to take a written work and then later force it into an acrostic. However, there are people who think that this is exactly what happened.

As far as the oral or pre-literary tradition goes, I don&#039;t know if we can really say for sure, partially because I don&#039;t know how much of a pre-literary tradition the book had. I&#039;m sure people have ideas, but that particular issue isn&#039;t one I looked into when I was writing this paper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that that the poems were originally written down in the acrostic structure; it seems like it would be somewhat counter-intuitive to take a written work and then later force it into an acrostic. However, there are people who think that this is exactly what happened.</p>
<p>As far as the oral or pre-literary tradition goes, I don&#8217;t know if we can really say for sure, partially because I don&#8217;t know how much of a pre-literary tradition the book had. I&#8217;m sure people have ideas, but that particular issue isn&#8217;t one I looked into when I was writing this paper.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Pothier</title>
		<link>http://www.thefloppyhat.com/2009/07/06/the-use-of-the-acrostic-in-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-3517</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Pothier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefloppyhat.com/?p=255#comment-3517</guid>
		<description>Needless to say, the alphabetic acrostic structure of the original is not usually able to be carried over into English translations. But there is an existing English translation of the entire Bible which tries to do justice to the form of the Hebrew alphabetic acrostic. This is the Knox translation, an older (late 1940&#039;s-50&#039;s) Roman Catholic translation done by Monsignor Ronald Knox, a convert from Anglicanism. This Knox translation is a translation from the Latin Vulgate &quot;in the light of the Hebrew and Greek originals&quot; and was authorized by the (Roman) Catholic Hierarchy of England and Wales and the Hierarchy of Scotland. I have used it in the past in Bible Study groups to illustrate an acrostic.
 
Although the Knox translation was a bit of a breakthrough at its time, at least within Catholicism, it has now been superceded by many other translations, including Roman Catholic ones, done from the original languages. The one outstanding feature of Knox&#039;s translation (and obviously one of the places were the &quot;light of the Hebrew&quot; original was allowed to shine) is in the alphabetic acrostics. Here Monsignor Knox respects the 22 letters of the Hebrew original but starts his verses with successive letters of the English alphabet, usually leaving off X, Y, and Z and one other letter, often Q.
 
In Lamentations 1, 2, and 4 he completely follows the English order and uses the letters A-V; and in Lamentations 3 he follows the tripled Hebrew verses (66 verses) and uses AAA-VVV, i.e. three A verses, then three B verses, etc. (If you try to check the Knox acrostic Psalms, remember that he is following the Vulgate numbering of the Psalms which is generally one lower than the more familiar English and Hebrew numbering, e.g. Ps 118 is the long one instead of Ps 119.) 

In all the Knox acrostics the printed text puts the Acrostic letter in Boldface type to highlight it. I include below the Knox translation of the Praise of the Good Wife (Proverbs 31:10-31, note the 22 verses!) In this one, the translator used the letters A-W, omitting Q, as the first letter of each verse. 

KNOX TRANSLATION OF PROVERBS 31:10-31 (An alphabetic ACROSTIC) . 
[Prov 31:10]&lt;b&gt;A&lt;/b&gt; man who has found a vigorous wife has found a rare treasure, brought from distant shores.
[11]&lt;b&gt;B&lt;/b&gt;ound to her in loving confidence, he will have no need of spoil.
[12]&lt;b&gt;C&lt;/b&gt;ontent, not sorrow, she will bring him as long as life lasts.
[13]&lt;b&gt;D&lt;/b&gt;oes she not busy herself with wool and thread, plying her hands with ready skill?
[14]&lt;b&gt;E&lt;/b&gt;ver she steers her course like some merchant ship, bringing provision from far away.
[15]&lt;b&gt;F&lt;/b&gt;rom early dawn she is up, assigning food to the household, so that each waiting-woman has her share.
[16]&lt;b&gt;G&lt;/b&gt;round must be examined. and bought, and planted out as a vineyard, with the earnings of her toil.
[17]&lt;b&gt;H&lt;/b&gt;ow briskly she girds herself to the task, how tireless are her arms!
[18]&lt;b&gt;I&lt;/b&gt;ndustry, she knows, is well rewarded, and all night long her lamp does not go out.
[19]&lt;b&gt;J&lt;/b&gt;ealously she sets her hands to work, her fingers clutch the spindle.
[20]&lt;b&gt;K&lt;/b&gt;indly is her welcome to the poor, her purse ever open to those in need.
[21]&lt;b&gt;L&lt;/b&gt;et the snow lie cold if it will, she has no fears for her household; no servant of hers but is warmly clad
[22]&lt;b&gt;M&lt;/b&gt;ade by her own hands was the coverlet on her bed, the clothes of lawn and purple that she wears.
[23]&lt;b&gt;N&lt;/b&gt;one so honoured at the city gate as that husband of hers, when he sits in council with the elders of the land.
[24]&lt;b&gt;O&lt;/b&gt;ften she will sell linen of her own weaving, or make a girdle for the travelling merchant to buy.
[25]&lt;b&gt;P&lt;/b&gt;rotected by her own industry and good repute, she greets the morrow with a smile.
[26]&lt;b&gt;R&lt;/b&gt;ipe wisdom governs her speech, but it is kindly instruction she gives.
[27]&lt;b&gt;S&lt;/b&gt;he keeps watch over all that goes on in her house, not content to go through life eating and sleeping.
[28]&lt;b&gt;T&lt;/b&gt;hat is why her children are the first to call her blessed, her husband is loud in her praise:
[29]&lt;b&gt;U&lt;/b&gt;nrivalled art thou among all the women that have enriched their homes.
[30]&lt;b&gt;V&lt;/b&gt;ain are the winning ways, beauty is a snare; it is the woman who fears the Lord that will achieve renown.
[31]&lt;b&gt;W&lt;/b&gt;ork such as hers claims its reward; let her life be spoken of with praise at the city gates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Needless to say, the alphabetic acrostic structure of the original is not usually able to be carried over into English translations. But there is an existing English translation of the entire Bible which tries to do justice to the form of the Hebrew alphabetic acrostic. This is the Knox translation, an older (late 1940&#8217;s-50&#8217;s) Roman Catholic translation done by Monsignor Ronald Knox, a convert from Anglicanism. This Knox translation is a translation from the Latin Vulgate &#8220;in the light of the Hebrew and Greek originals&#8221; and was authorized by the (Roman) Catholic Hierarchy of England and Wales and the Hierarchy of Scotland. I have used it in the past in Bible Study groups to illustrate an acrostic.</p>
<p>Although the Knox translation was a bit of a breakthrough at its time, at least within Catholicism, it has now been superceded by many other translations, including Roman Catholic ones, done from the original languages. The one outstanding feature of Knox&#8217;s translation (and obviously one of the places were the &#8220;light of the Hebrew&#8221; original was allowed to shine) is in the alphabetic acrostics. Here Monsignor Knox respects the 22 letters of the Hebrew original but starts his verses with successive letters of the English alphabet, usually leaving off X, Y, and Z and one other letter, often Q.</p>
<p>In Lamentations 1, 2, and 4 he completely follows the English order and uses the letters A-V; and in Lamentations 3 he follows the tripled Hebrew verses (66 verses) and uses AAA-VVV, i.e. three A verses, then three B verses, etc. (If you try to check the Knox acrostic Psalms, remember that he is following the Vulgate numbering of the Psalms which is generally one lower than the more familiar English and Hebrew numbering, e.g. Ps 118 is the long one instead of Ps 119.) </p>
<p>In all the Knox acrostics the printed text puts the Acrostic letter in Boldface type to highlight it. I include below the Knox translation of the Praise of the Good Wife (Proverbs 31:10-31, note the 22 verses!) In this one, the translator used the letters A-W, omitting Q, as the first letter of each verse. </p>
<p>KNOX TRANSLATION OF PROVERBS 31:10-31 (An alphabetic ACROSTIC) .<br />
[Prov 31:10]<b>A</b> man who has found a vigorous wife has found a rare treasure, brought from distant shores.<br />
[11]<b>B</b>ound to her in loving confidence, he will have no need of spoil.<br />
[12]<b>C</b>ontent, not sorrow, she will bring him as long as life lasts.<br />
[13]<b>D</b>oes she not busy herself with wool and thread, plying her hands with ready skill?<br />
[14]<b>E</b>ver she steers her course like some merchant ship, bringing provision from far away.<br />
[15]<b>F</b>rom early dawn she is up, assigning food to the household, so that each waiting-woman has her share.<br />
[16]<b>G</b>round must be examined. and bought, and planted out as a vineyard, with the earnings of her toil.<br />
[17]<b>H</b>ow briskly she girds herself to the task, how tireless are her arms!<br />
[18]<b>I</b>ndustry, she knows, is well rewarded, and all night long her lamp does not go out.<br />
[19]<b>J</b>ealously she sets her hands to work, her fingers clutch the spindle.<br />
[20]<b>K</b>indly is her welcome to the poor, her purse ever open to those in need.<br />
[21]<b>L</b>et the snow lie cold if it will, she has no fears for her household; no servant of hers but is warmly clad<br />
[22]<b>M</b>ade by her own hands was the coverlet on her bed, the clothes of lawn and purple that she wears.<br />
[23]<b>N</b>one so honoured at the city gate as that husband of hers, when he sits in council with the elders of the land.<br />
[24]<b>O</b>ften she will sell linen of her own weaving, or make a girdle for the travelling merchant to buy.<br />
[25]<b>P</b>rotected by her own industry and good repute, she greets the morrow with a smile.<br />
[26]<b>R</b>ipe wisdom governs her speech, but it is kindly instruction she gives.<br />
[27]<b>S</b>he keeps watch over all that goes on in her house, not content to go through life eating and sleeping.<br />
[28]<b>T</b>hat is why her children are the first to call her blessed, her husband is loud in her praise:<br />
[29]<b>U</b>nrivalled art thou among all the women that have enriched their homes.<br />
[30]<b>V</b>ain are the winning ways, beauty is a snare; it is the woman who fears the Lord that will achieve renown.<br />
[31]<b>W</b>ork such as hers claims its reward; let her life be spoken of with praise at the city gates.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Couturier</title>
		<link>http://www.thefloppyhat.com/2009/07/06/the-use-of-the-acrostic-in-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-3329</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Couturier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefloppyhat.com/?p=255#comment-3329</guid>
		<description>Great post Mandy.  Do you think the acrostic is a later addition to the poem in the literary or oral stage or do you personally think that was always apart of the poem?  To me it seems that this would be a nice mnemonic device in the oral stage that would add to the lyrical nature of the poem (I am not sure if we could with any certainty know what the pre-literary form would be).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Mandy.  Do you think the acrostic is a later addition to the poem in the literary or oral stage or do you personally think that was always apart of the poem?  To me it seems that this would be a nice mnemonic device in the oral stage that would add to the lyrical nature of the poem (I am not sure if we could with any certainty know what the pre-literary form would be).</p>
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